Thursday, 17 April 2008


Hi People

This is a follow up blog to the previous regarding the dept of works n pensions the title of that blog SOCIAL JUSTICE FOR VULNERABLE ADULTS posted on blogger 16th feb 2008. Not that its made any difference to the Usual Suspects, but I have grown used to that. So with no replies from them I rang about my appeal and a number of emails were given and sent this is the history of them and I wonder if any questions will be asked about 'what the F is going on in this department. I doubt that they will, but then alot is at stake for certain organisations.

Here then is the emails, as far as their assertion that these are private and confidential, I thought we had open government in Wales and that the Dept of Works n Pension is the government. so here goes.

On the 27th feb 2008 I had this ''Test as promised Mark Incapacity Benefit'' I've kept the name hidden but this is the rest of the email address @JOBCENTREPLUS.GSI.GOV.UK

On the 27th feb 2008 I had this ''Test As promised.
Note: Please reply to this email not the previous one, as the previous one I sent from the wrong email account of the lady who took your call and that lady is just going home now so we won't see the email until tomorrow if sent using that one.
Use this one and as soon as we get it I'll pass it to Income support for you and ask them to reply by email back to you.
Regards Mark
Mark Jones Telephony Team Leader (Incapacity Benefit) Jobcentreplus

So I sent this as a reply to Mark '

Thank you mark

here is a copy of the letter sent in the post

All the best David

To: Tony PowellManagerJobcentreplus 15th Feb 2008

Hi Mr. Powell

re: your 5th feb 2008 letter

I am appealing your decision in the recent letter about my income support from your dept. The part I am appealing is the amount taken out for water. Under legislation the water company are bound by law to write off debts if a debtor is living on a limited income and have been paying off their debt for 2 years. (rest of letter supplied edited here for ease)

Mark replied with this

David, Just to confirm your email has arrived safely and I'm just about to pass it to the Income Support section for you. Regards Mark Mark JonesTelephony Team Leader (IB)Jobcentreplus

I replied with this

Thanks Mark

So then I waited to hear what they made of my appeal, time went on I heard nothing so that on the 29th March 2008 I sent Mark this:

Hi Mark I have yet to hear anything about this appeal can you offer any advice as to when a response might be due??? all the Best David

On the 31st March Mark emailed me back with this:

Good afternoon David.

I am dismayed to hear that you have yet to have a response to your email and I offer my apologies on behalf of Jobcentreplus.

I personally am not involved with Income Support so cannot answer you directly myself.

I have however spoken to and handed your email to, the senior Income Support manager.

She advises me that she will urgently investigate and contact you.

Best regards

And so I replied

'HI Mark Just to let you know that I have received your email thank you for your efforts on my behalf. All the Best David Gabriel'

So on the 4th April 2008 I recieved this from Christine Minnet

Mr. Gabriel,

I have received a copy of your email regarding water deductions from your Income support. Deductions commenced from 01/05/07 at 11.09 per week, which is less than 25% of your Income support applicable amount. I have had no sight of your original letter. If you wish to appeal a decision, please send a signed letter from yourself advising of the date of decision you are appealing which has to be within one month of your letter of appeal, and specifically your reason to appeal that decision. If you dispute is with Welsh Water you would need to address the appeal towards them if the appeal is specifically to due with your benefit only please address the appeal for my attention and we will action accordingly. I ask if and when you submit an appeal you address only the issues relating to the decision you are disputing.

Christine Minett Appeals Officer BDC Newport ( 01633 241964 ) (I've withheld her email address for fun)

I have to admit that I couldn't quite believe what I was reading if she read the email with the letter then she should really have KNOWN which decision I was appealing as its pritty clear in the letter to Mr. Powell. Did she read it or is this some more of the game playing 'these F's' like to get up to???????????? Needless to say I replied loads of spelling mistakes but so what you get the drift don'tchew! This was sent the 7th april 2008

Hi Christine

below is a copy of the original letter to Tony Powell and this is the copy of the email sent to Mark Jones on the 27th February. I believe that under 'legislative requirements' fot those on low incomes the debt part of the appeal should have been 'written off' in 2002, but dwr Cymru have done their level best not to do so. As for the Rateable Value of the property. Well Cardiff County Council have a 'conflict of interest' in rating it as they have and I would like that challegnged in Law. As this letter has already been sent to your department once already I amn loathe to send it again less it goes adrift. I trust that you will accept this email and my national insurance number at the end as proof that it is indeed me who is sending it.

All the Best David Gabriel.

On the 8th april 2008 I had the email rightbackatcha from her with no comment so I sent this on the same day.

Hi Christine I see that you forwarded this back to me with no comment can you explain??? David Gabriel

On the 11th of april 2008 I received this from her

Mr. Gabriel, in order to accept a valid appeal I would require a signed letter from yourself not an email, again you seem to be talking about a decision that would have to be made by Welsh Water about writing off debt not us. If you still want to appeal against a Social Security Decision NOT WELSH WATER, please send a letter with a signature from yourself including the following details:




Please remember this has to be a Social Security decision if it is as I suspect a Welsh Water decision you will have to raise your dispute with them directly. We have merely acted as a third party on instructions to take deductions from your benefit. Whether these deductions should not be taken because as you say the debt should have been written off then you need to discuss this with Welsh Water and if they then agree, we would be informed to stop any deductions.

Chris Minett
Appeals Officer

Does she read the emails you send her Crazydave or is she just giving you the 'dumb feeking blonde' routine to be awkward??????????????? Question should she be employed in a position where its obvious she hasn't got the where with all to warrant it???????

So on the 15th april 2008 I sent her this:

Hi christine

the Law regarding the writing off of debt under hardship conditions was one made by central government to cover those in the financial strights that being unable to work places me. As the dept of Works n Pensions to which you belong is a government body. Your organisation ought to be well aware of the conditions and legislation governing debts to the water companies are to be written off under. As you fascilitate the payment of such debts. In an ideal world the debt would have been stopped by your dept in 2002. That is what I am appealing about, that your dept as a government body ought to be aware that Dwr Cymru is trying to flaunt legislative requirements in the manner that they have.

Your dept should also have the records of their last letter to me regarding the increase in water charges being taken out of my benefit and it is that that my previous letter to Mr. Powell (apparently not delivered again by royal mail, if you have looked at the blogs mentioned in that letter copy supplied to you in my last email you will see that alot of government depts claim that they have not recieved letters from me, frankly I nolonger believe them).

As for the Rateable Value of the property that is governed by the local council and as they are using it to gain greater rent revenue from a former house now a multi dwelling tenancy. They are in effect de-frauding the Housing Benefit system. That is also fascilitated being paid by your dept of Works and Pensions. What I find remarkable is that no-doubt the dept of Works and Pensions will have many of its younger employees living in the types of accomodation that I am describing and being ripped of left right and centre for living there, that as an employer you would have thought your union would be fighting for such a change in legislation that I have called for and these types of properties declared shared houses so that the charges become equitable.

I trust that this will have to do for now, or have I to drop the letter off to one of your offices to forward it to Mr. Powell and you can chew on what is written here now. I can only hope that you come to realise that it is not only me that would be effected by these changes, but also work collegues of your own who would see a benefit in their lives.

Yours in Love n Light David Gabriel aka Crazydave PS In the copy my appeal refers to Mr. Powell's letter 5th Feb 2008

Now with the PS and the what not in the original letter you might be suprised to know that on the 16th april Christine wrote me the this:

Mr. Gabriel,

As I stated previously I act on behalf of Newport Benefit Delivery Centre which pays your Income Support on the Appeal section, the Water deductions were originally requested by yourself to be deducted from your benefit a few years back. Again if you have a dispute with an Income Support decision specifically please advise the date of the Income Support decision you are disputing and what the Income Support decision was. If you want us to stop your water deductions being paid from your benefit then please request that from the Income Support department. As I stated previously Income Support has merely acted as a third party between you and your water company. I have now received a copy of your original letter but unless you state SPECIFIALLY the exact date of the Income Support decision you are disputing if in fact you are disputing an Income Support decision I am unable to log this as a valid appeal. I only deal with appeals relating to Income support decisions not the government as a whole or the Water companies.

If you do want to lodge a valid appeal against an Income Support decision, please advise by addressing that issue only.

Many Thanks
Chris Minett
IS/JSA Appeals Officer

So being a good boy I sent her this today 17th april 2008

Hi Christine

The decision I am appealing is the one made in Mr. Powell's 5th Feb 2008 letter to me as mentioned several times, once in the original reply to Mr. Powell and as the PS in my previous email to you. I would like the debt part of money being taken out stopped, and I would like your organisation of the overpayments made to Dwr Cymru reclaimed by you just as your organisation reclaims money in overpayments since 2002 from Dwr Cymru.

I don't see how you have missed the date of the decision I am appealing seeing as I have provided it often enough and it's also odd that whoops hey you did get the original letter dated 15th feb 2008. Seeing as its now the 17th April and its only because I have chased this up via email that any action is being taken. So please stop the debt part of the payments, and dwr Cymru can sue me if they like.

I hope this clarifies your concerns. Yours David Gabriel aka Crazydave.

Well so far Christine hasn't replied but I expect she will, I also wonder if her UNION would like to help get the legislation changed that allows Dwr Cymru to rob people blind from houses of multiple occupancy, but I don't think that they will after all i've tried that route in the past and the Union's havent wanted to know, even though many government employees will be living in this type of accomodation and being reipped off, all because government refuses to re-designate these properties SHARED HOUSES.

So what can I do about being given the run arround??? Not a lot meanwhile the incompetant continue to hold my purce strings. re-feeking-markable Crazydave.

Love n light people from crazydave
All the Best in this instance is having people who don't play games with benefit claimants lives.


Well Christine replied again today and rightbackat'cha baby so did I. here they are then soon the Minister for the Dept. of Works n Pensions will have a copy of this blog and the question of 'Duty of Care' for clients will be on the adgenda eh Prime Minister?????????


Mr. Gabriel, I will forward a copy of your request to Income Support, to request they stop your water deductions, as far as the water debt is concerned you will have to address this with the Water company themselves. Your debt with Welsh Water is not an issue for Income Support to address.

There is therefore nothing else for me to address, your appeal is now concluded as far as Income Support is concerned, as I have said previously Income Support merely acted as a third party to pay money to Welsh Water on your behalf, on requesting your deductions stop, that concludes our matter.

Chris Minett

My reply was this:

Thank you Christine

I trust that the annual charge will still be taken out of my benefit. I shall be emailing the Minister for the Dept of works and pension, that indeed it has a duty of care to claimants it fascilitates payment on behalf of to the like of the water companies so that in future if some other is in a similar position to myself that debt payments will be stopped if the claimant has paid of portions of the debt consistently for 2yrs as set out in legislative reqirements for it to then be written off by the water company.

I would still like the dept of W n P to claim back the overpayments to Dwr Cymru that they have allowed due to neglect. As for the Rateable Value of the property, I would like that challenged in the highest court of the land and so I am appealing that ammount that Dwr Cymru are taking out of my benefit through what ever Tribunal Appeal service you people have running. Can I have confirmation of the change to my benefit level now that the debt part is being stopped.

All the best David Gabriel

FOR A FULL LIST OF BLOGS GO TO and send a few of them to your AM's or MP's to see what they have to say????

UPDATE 19TH APRIL 2008 and here is the introduction to this blog sent to the minister for dept of works and pensions James Purnell and the new secretary of state for Wales Paul Murphy;

Hi Everybody This is mainly for Mr Purnell just as a sample of the stuff that goes on with claimants and the departments staff. It's also a hope that Mr. Murphy might call for a public inquiry into the dare do nothing Welsh Assembly, but then that would be a miracle. for the record both of you might find the word imagery and videos listed on this blogs address of interest. I still believe Mr. Purnell that your dept has a duty of care that has been sadly lacking with regards to myself. Its a self explanitory blog but I do trust you will look at the others.

All the best David Gabriel aka Crazydave


Hi People here are some more emails sent to the Minister for the Department of Works n Pensions James Purnell plus copies went to other usual suspect members. Mr Purnell so far has refused to reply to the questions that the emails raise. I would email the Standards Commissioner at Parliament but oh what a waste of time that would be. The Standards Commissioner aids and abets Criminal Negliegence Oh Yes.

sent 24th April 2008

Hi Mr Purnell

One other thing, do you think that you can contact Christine Minett on my behalf and ask her to send me an ammended version where the debt part of the bill is stopped and could you tell me how I have the annual charge callenged via your organisations appeals proceedure. Wearing your duty of care hat, on the vulnerables claimants behalf.

See the blogs and videos on relating to water charges. yours David Gabriel

and then this on 30th April 2008

Hi Mr. Purnell

I wonder if it is a criminal offence for dept of works n pensions employees to go against the express wishes of a claimant in wht is and what is not taken out of their benefit. I have appealled the decision in the 5th feb letter from them, I have requested that the dept part of the water company charge nolonger be taken out of my benefit. Ms Minett has so far refused to do that and I am appealing the annual charge on the property given the RV. Which you would have thought was a right given that the DWP are the conduits of payment to the water companies.

Do you think Mr. Purnell as minister you could provide me with the next in line to Ms Minett on the chain of command so that these issues can be dealt with lawfully rather than ignored as it would appear is her intention????? Yours in anticipation thank you, but given that you have failed to comment so far are you breaking the law in that regard.

David Gabriel. for a full list of blogs and the history behind this

and today in my inbox were these:

Mr. Gabriel, I have not ignored your request, as I previously advised you I have passed your request to have your water deductions stopped to the Income Support processing team to be actioned. I am not an Income Support processor and therefore cannot stop the deductions myself but I have referred your request to Income Support who will be in contact with you regarding those deductions.

C. Minett

and this

Dear Mr Gabriel

I have contacted Welsh Water who have advised me there is still a Debt to be recovered.
I can terminate your Water Deductions in total (debt and current consumption)in order for you to arrange your own payment arrangements with Welsh Water
If Deductions Are to continue we would have to recover both Debt And current consumption from your Benefit.
Please advise me if you wish to terminate your deductions?

Thank You

P Price

I havent replied to that yet, but as the debt part is seperate from the annual charge in the deductions, why aren't the BDC people informing the water company that Crazydave comes under legislation to protect those on fixed incomes from any further payments regarding the so called debt. In fact we have unfortunately been making payments that should have been wiped off for Mr. Gabriel since 2002 and would like to reclaim it on his behalf. That sure would be the attitude in a caring society eh house of Lords members, after all didn't you pass the legislation to protect the likes of myself. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!

End of update.


Hi People

Here is the latest email to be sent to the minister and those at the DWP or jobcentreplus as they like to call it. I can only hope that soon someone somewhere who knows what I am refering to is SOCIAL JUSTICE IN ACTION and has the necessary n where with all to help me get that Judicial Review, and spank those OFWAT people on the wrist and where ever else. Here's the email.

Hi Everybody Here is the latest update to my blog,. you know where to look. I would like to know why the DWP refuse to tackle the water companies when parliament has laid out guidlines for the protection for people in my situation. After all I meet all the specifications for their supposed debt to be written off don't I??? Long term fixed income paid off supposed debt for the required two years, by end of 2002. So why isn't this dept of government sending the water company a letter reminding them that Mr. Gabriel falls into the catergory required under legislation for his debt to have been written off in 2002, and that due to an oversight on our behalf your company has been overpaid. Can anyone ask the PM if he can answer that question. Also there is the Judicial Review I am calling for through the DWP Appeals system on the Rateable Value of the Property I live at, that it is way over what its current or past configuration has been and that the water company are excessively profiting out of it. I thought there was a duty of care for vulnerable adults, and while the politicians bleat about fuel poverty, what about water poverty. The change I have been calling for for so many years now would just be a fair and equitable one, and as it is mostly vulnerable adults who live in houses of multiple occupancy why this unnecessary delay. I wonder Pat Price if you can ask the Minister to respond to you where James seems so reluctant to with me. Mental Health sufferes should not be cash cows for share holders, as the none-challenge to current Rateable Values allows the water companies to be. Yours Crazydave